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#201 mizscarlett43

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 01:30 PM

Mizz Scarlett, while you're defending her "till death", forgot, you caused her pain? k, one word game that applies to me:
gulliable.. . I like fuvkin' believe every fuvkin' thing..so, you, accidently fuvked Pam's boyfriend>The Doors accidently left her high & dry after his death?


I didn't cause her pain, Catherine. She had no way to know about me because she was already in Paris when Jim made his move on me, and for my part, I was still seeing her from my former friend Patricia's viewpoint, which was a tad skewed to say the least.

As for The Doors leaving her "high and dry" after Jim's death, I think we've already covered that. Apparently she a didn't want anything to do with the Doors after Jim's death, and those ugly stories about her turning to prostitution are sourced to a couple of jealous bitches (in my not so humble opinion) surnamed Babitz.

Edited by mizscarlett43, 29 September 2013 - 02:00 PM.

I still believe in the Cosmic Giggle, even if Rolling Stone doesn't any more.

#202 queenhwy

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 05:05 PM

Hey there! What are you doing up so late at the board? Just hanging out huh!

That is a good question you just brought up. Because what it all gets down to is this.........JIm did everything he could to take care of Pam, to protect her, buy her a house, buy her a clothes store, let her travel around the world with as much money as she needed to purchase things for the Themis, protect her from the world that had grown around him. He felt responsible for her and did everything he could to make her life easier. He really loved spoiling her at that. That is all quite evident. But in the end when they were in Paris together, there was no one to protect Jim from Pam's crew of drug thugs. Everything Jim did for Pam came back to bite him in the backside. He is lying in a coffin because of Pam's reckless life. Hey, but what the hell, right. Pam was so worth it all. I have seen that in a number of posts.


Hey Tex! For some odd reason the time stamp is way off. It was only 11:30 pm when I was on the board. I don't know why it said 3:30am! I was long asleep by then!

People seem to either love Pam C. or loathe her. I agree with you about your points above. I've always had mixed feelings towards her. It does seem he felt responsible for her, especially financially. Maybe she got accustomed to that lavish, rich lifestyle. It is tough to come from that lifestyle and then down to nothing.
The future's uncertain
And the end is always near.

#203 mizscarlett43

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 05:21 PM

Hey Tex! For some odd reason the time stamp is way off. It was only 11:30 pm when I was on the board. I don't know why it said 3:30am! I was long asleep by then!

People seem to either love Pam C. or loathe her. I agree with you about your points above. I've always had mixed feelings towards her. It does seem he felt responsible for her, especially financially. Maybe she got accustomed to that lavish, rich lifestyle. It is tough to come from that lifestyle and then down to nothing.


What "lavish, rich" lifestyle? She lived in an decent but ordinary apartment in a 1940s Spanish-style building half a block east of me in West Hollywood.

She wasn't with him because of his money--she was with him BEFORE his fame and fortune and he trusted her because of that. What kind of gullible idiot would Jim had to have been to have been with a woman who was with him only because of his fame and fortune?

All due respect, but you dishonor both of them with this kind of speculation.

Edited by mizscarlett43, 01 October 2013 - 05:21 PM.

I still believe in the Cosmic Giggle, even if Rolling Stone doesn't any more.

#204 manhime

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:07 PM

What "lavish, rich" lifestyle? She lived in an decent but ordinary apartment in a 1940s Spanish-style building half a block east of me in West Hollywood.


She was living in the 1940s Spanish-style building because she had to live 3 years to inherit the money. I remember reading that was a stipulation? Or was it because the Morrison family fought it in the courts? Either way she had to wait. When she got money loans upfront from the lawyers. She spent it on a car, fur, drugs.

NO I do not hate her. Just stating facts.

#205 queenhwy

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:20 PM

What "lavish, rich" lifestyle? She lived in an decent but ordinary apartment in a 1940s Spanish-style building half a block east of me in West Hollywood.

She wasn't with him because of his money--she was with him BEFORE his fame and fortune and he trusted her because of that. What kind of gullible idiot would Jim had to have been to have been with a woman who was with him only because of his fame and fortune?

All due respect, but you dishonor both of them with this kind of speculation.


I said "maybe" she got used to that lifestyle. I didn't state it as fact. I do not try to speak for JM. It was for sake of conversation.

I've been to the house, so I'm aware of what it looked like, and I know she was with him before the fame. But from what I've read from people who knew her and were there, she drove some nice cars(Porsche, Volkswagen), she lived in nice places(Rothdell Trail), Jim M. financed a store for her. So I assume she lived rent free, I assume JM paid for for her groceries, rent, store, car, car insurance, clothing, travel, etc. So that is the lifestyle I was referring to.

Was it all so glamorous? I'm sure it wasn't. So I'm repeating what others who knew her said. They dishonor them more than I do.

http://forum.johnden...?showtopic=3281 (1974 article.)

Edited by queenhwy, 01 October 2013 - 08:37 PM.

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And the end is always near.

#206 manhime

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:34 PM

I said "maybe" she got used to that lifestyle. I didn't state it as fact. I do not try to speak for JM. It was for sake of conversation.

I've been to the house, so I'm aware of what it looked like, and I know she was with him before the fame. But from what I've read from people who knew her and were there, she drove some nice cars(Porsche, Volkswagen), she lived in nice places(Rothdell Trail), Jim M. financed a store for her. So I assume she lived rent free, I assume JM paid for for her groceries, rent, store, car, car insurance, clothing, travel, etc. So that is the lifestyle I was referring to.

Was it all so glamorous? I'm sure it wasn't. So I'm repeating what others who knew her said. They dishonor them more than I do.

I thought they met at the London Fog? I read so many stories on when and how they met. Does anyone know the truth? Unless Stone got it right and Jim stalked her from the beach lol

#207 queenhwy

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:42 PM

I thought they met at the London Fog? I read so many stories on when and how they met. Does anyone know the truth? Unless Stone got it right and Jim stalked her from the beach lol


Yeah, I read the same thing, or that they met at her College. Who really knows. So much has been said and depending on who's perspective you believe it can be a nice or nasty portrayal of her.
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And the end is always near.

#208 manhime

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:51 PM

Yeah, I read the same thing, or that they met at her College. Who really knows. So much has been said and depending on who's perspective you believe it can be a nice or nasty portrayal of her.

Or somewhere in the middle

#209 Encuentro

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 10:42 PM

They met at The Foggy London.

Edited by Encuentro, 01 October 2013 - 11:21 PM.


#210 freedomgirl

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 07:36 PM

Oh my gosh, Miz, gezzzzzzzzz....... whizzzzzzzz........huh, ...........Pam certainly is reticent since she has been dead for almost 40 years. I'd be quite reticent too if I had been in a grave for that length of time. That will sure cut down on communication that's for sure. Huh, I didn't ever see myself patronizing my relationship with Jim. Now that sure strikes me as odd. Patronizing.....let's see the definition ...oh, here it is I found it right here on the good ol' internet............tr.v. pa·tron·ized, pa·tron·iz·ing, pa·tron·iz·es

1. To act as a patron to; support or sponsor.
2. To go to as a customer, especially on a regular basis.
3. To treat in a condescending manner

Well, good night you are correct.....it appears I did support Jim in my posts. I have tried my best to be here to support Jim and his memory. That is the reason I hoppy-hopped on to the board last fall. Thanks for the thumbs up, I have tried my best to honor him in the short amount of time I knew him while I lived in southern California. Oh, those were the days indeed!

And about the little girl, you are as right as rain about her. Did Jim ever tell you why he wanted a child...especially a daughter? He told me he could feel a little girl around him....like the soul of a girl child. He felt she was waiting to be born to him. He loved little girls. Did he ever tell you that much about her? Just curious. He even had a name waiting for her and a name waiting for a son in case that ever happened. Jim was ready to go on that account. It's just trying to figure out who mom was going to be. That in itself is a head scratcher. Cause you know, we want mom to be a pure and healthy vessel to carry this enchanted child. Good food, fresh air, vitamins, veggie juices, & lots of rest for mom to be. Jim wanted to have a healthy, beautiful, and intelligent little girl to carry that Morrison name.

Did he ever tell you the name he had selected? 50 points if you name it. Oh, ........ okay, well a 100 then.


Did the name for his daughter maybe start with a J by any coincidence? I don´t know what Jim told you but I think I know...

Edited by freedomgirl, 02 October 2013 - 09:29 PM.

...He communicated with emotion, rage, grace, and wisdom. He offered very little in the way of compromise...

#211 freedomgirl

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 07:52 PM

Hey there! What are you doing up so late at the board? Just hanging out huh!

That is a good question you just brought up. Because what it all gets down to is this.........JIm did everything he could to take care of Pam, to protect her, buy her a house, buy her a clothes store, let her travel around the world with as much money as she needed to purchase things for the Themis, protect her from the world that had grown around him. He felt responsible for her and did everything he could to make her life easier. He really loved spoiling her at that. That is all quite evident. But in the end when they were in Paris together, there was no one to protect Jim from Pam's crew of drug thugs. Everything Jim did for Pam came back to bite him in the backside. He is lying in a coffin because of Pam's reckless life. Hey, but what the hell, right. Pam was so worth it all. I have seen that in a number of posts.


Texasky I wonder if giving Pam everything money could buy wasn´t just buying some peace for him, at least at times. Money ment so little to Jim, Pam was the one who liked money. I read somewhere (I don´t remember who said it) that giving Pam Themis was not only for the reason to give her the store she wanted but also to keep her occupied and get her financially independent. He already was thinking about leaving her then. It was supposed to be some kind of financial settlement, he wanted her to be taken care of.

Edited by freedomgirl, 02 October 2013 - 09:31 PM.

...He communicated with emotion, rage, grace, and wisdom. He offered very little in the way of compromise...

#212 rokritr

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 12:53 AM

Texasky I wonder if giving Pam everything money could buy wasn´t just buying some peace for him, at least at times. Money ment so little to Jim, Pam was the one who liked money. I read somewhere (I don´t remember who said it) that giving Pam Themis was not only for the reason to give her the store she wanted but also to keep her occupied and get her financially independent. He already was thinking about leaving her then. It was supposed to be some kind of financial settlement, he wanted her to be taken care of.


We can all talk about what we've heard or seen, but the relationship with Pam was anything but over at the time of Jim's death. In fact, they were getting out of Themis as a business, but there was no intention of Jim leaving her.....at least according to Jim himself.

Here's Jim's letter to his business manager/accountant Bob Greene, written only days before his death. I've highlighted all the times that Jim talks about himself and Pam as a couple (we, our, etc). Never does he talk only about himself (with the exception of wanting a copy of the band's Partnership Agreement).

Not making any overall claims, but sometimes its best to go to the source himself whenever possible, and the fact that he was talking about himself and Pam continually in this letter....again, written mere days before his death.....and this same letter also makes all these stories about Jim being depressed, despondent, out of his mind drunk, at the time of his death shown to be nothing but unfounded rumours.

Anyway, here's Jim's last known correspondence:

Hello Bob,
How are you? The weather
today has finally turned
sunny after a month
of grey. Paris is beautiful
in the sun, an exciting
town, built for human
beings.

Speaking to Bill [Siddons] a while
back, I told him of
our desire to stay on here
indefinitely. Will that
be possible? Could you
write & give me an idea
of how long we can stay on
living at our present rate.
A sort of financial statement
in general. Also, a copy
of The Partnership Agreement
if it was ever completed.

We've decided to turn the
shop [Themis] over to Tom & Judy
[Pam's brother-in-law and sister] so
they can seek a loan - all
but the furnishings & some
personal things which we'll
keep. Eventually, we'd like
to be completely clear of
any involvement. Could you
help figure out the best way
to do this?

Incidentally, would you
ask Judy for her parents' address
& send them $100 for the dog [Sage].
Any luck on the credit
cards? We could use them,
made out in both our names.
What's the problem?
And if you'd send our check
when you receive this…house bills
are catching up. Please send $3,000.00.
Give our best to all. Later, Jim.

#213 mizscarlett43

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 01:27 AM

I never thought I'd thank you for anything, rokritr, but I thank you for this post because in this case you're spot on.

Now listen up, everybody: Back in the day, Jim was talking a lot about starting a family--and it sure wasn't me he had in mind as the mother of his prospective children, nor--with all due respect because I didn't even know about her back then--was it Tex (or anyone else) he had in mind back then.

It was always Pamela Susan Courson. He never named her, but it was very, very clear to me that's who he'd chosen to be the mother of his children.

He liked me, he was comfortable with me (and vice versa) but I was never under any illusion whatsoever that it was anything more than than that. Comfort, ease, and casual friendship--that's what it was and that's all I've ever claimed or ever will.
I still believe in the Cosmic Giggle, even if Rolling Stone doesn't any more.

#214 manhime

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 01:52 AM

We can all talk about what we've heard or seen, but the relationship with Pam was anything but over at the time of Jim's death. In fact, they were getting out of Themis as a business, but there was no intention of Jim leaving her.....at least according to Jim himself.

Here's Jim's letter to his business manager/accountant Bob Greene, written only days before his death. I've highlighted all the times that Jim talks about himself and Pam as a couple (we, our, etc). Never does he talk only about himself (with the exception of wanting a copy of the band's Partnership Agreement).

Not making any overall claims, but sometimes its best to go to the source himself whenever possible, and the fact that he was talking about himself and Pam continually in this letter....again, written mere days before his death.....and this same letter also makes all these stories about Jim being depressed, despondent, out of his mind drunk, at the time of his death shown to be nothing but unfounded rumours.

Anyway, here's Jim's last known correspondence:

Hello Bob,
How are you? The weather
today has finally turned
sunny after a month
of grey. Paris is beautiful
in the sun, an exciting
town, built for human
beings.

Speaking to Bill [Siddons] a while
back, I told him of
our desire to stay on here
indefinitely. Will that
be possible? Could you
write & give me an idea
of how long we can stay on
living at our present rate.
A sort of financial statement
in general. Also, a copy
of The Partnership Agreement
if it was ever completed.

We've decided to turn the
shop [Themis] over to Tom & Judy
[Pam's brother-in-law and sister] so
they can seek a loan - all
but the furnishings & some
personal things which we'll
keep. Eventually, we'd like
to be completely clear of
any involvement. Could you
help figure out the best way
to do this?

Incidentally, would you
ask Judy for her parents' address
& send them $100 for the dog [Sage].
Any luck on the credit
cards? We could use them,
made out in both our names.
What's the problem?
And if you'd send our check
when you receive this…house bills
are catching up. Please send $3,000.00.
Give our best to all. Later, Jim.

We can all agree that Jim did not use words loosely, He meant every word in that letter as it was written

#215 Texasky

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 02:19 AM

Jim certainly wanted to have a child especially a daughter.

And he told me that if he had a daughter or a son he would name that child River. He felt a destiny to have that child.

I wish Jim would have had a long and happy life.
HE COURTED DEATH LIKE IT WAS A DARK ELUSIVE SWEETHEART

#216 manhime

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 02:46 AM

Jim certainly wanted to have a child especially a daughter.

And he told me that if he had a daughter or a son he would name that child River. He felt a destiny to have that child.

I wish Jim would have had a long and happy life.

Why River?

That seems like such a simple name for a man with such vocabulary

#217 StupidGirl

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 05:51 AM

rock star.. howdo you know this stuff? sg

#218 StupidGirl

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 05:53 AM

Why River?

That seems like such a simple name for a man with such vocabulary

i dunno know. The river always flows into something bigger.....oh fuvk me, forgot, manhime, you don't understand me or riverside or niagara river....havea nice day.

Edited by StupidGirl, 03 October 2013 - 05:54 AM.


#219 Texasky

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 01:10 AM

About the name River:

My brother's second son was born in the summer of 1968. One day when Jim was visiting my brother the baby woke up from his nap and started crying. We all went in to the baby's room and Jim asked if he could pick him up. My brother who was very happy for a helping hand welcomed Jim's offer. So Jim picks up my nephew and the baby immediately stops crying. And this baby and Jim are looking at each other. It was a such a sweet moment and forever seared into my brain. Jim started talking to John (my nephew) and that baby locked eyes on Jim and with a great big smile and he starts cooing. Now we are standing here watching and my brother is really taken with this moment because John is very hungry and has stopped crying. And my brother is saying that John is usually howling away with hunger and ready for the bottle even when he is being held. So not a sound coming from the baby who is intently staring into Jim's eyes. There is this silent communication between them. It was a magical occurrence to watch this baby stay silent while Jim was holding him. And Jim starts talking to John while he gently rocks him. You could hear a pin drop. So my brother hands Jim the bottle and Jim sits down and has no problem getting the baby to drink his formula. And they are still locking eyes. John was simply fascinated with this new face. And after those first few ounces, Jim puts John to his shoulder and burps him like a pro. And then gives him the rest of the bottle. When John is finished Jim takes him over to the changing table and changes his diaper like it is second nature. And Jim is softly talking to him. The baby just keeps his eyes locked on Jim. When I asked Jim about this ability to soothe John, he told me he had a nephew and he really felt comfortable with babies. And that is when Jim said he already had a name picked out for a child and it was River.

Jim wanted to have children. He told me so and he would love to have a daughter. And a son would be fine too. Now, something Jim spoke about was that some of the young women he knew in Laurel Canyon were pregnant and taking drugs. He brought up one young woman who purposely took LSD while she was pregnant. Apparently her idea was that the baby's mind/brain would expand more in the uterus. JIm was appalled at such thinking. He went on about how a woman's body needs to be pure and drink only the best water and eat natural foods and best to be living in the country and out of the city. Even coffee and caffinated teas should be eliminated while the fetus is growing. He was really adamant about the fetus getting the best start in life and he believed the mom to be should also take vitamins and have a stress free time while pregnant. She should be happy because the baby would be affected by her moods. Jim was very ahead of his time to be thinking this way. Plenty of women smoked back in the 60's and even drank alcohol and according to Jim took drugs, too.

To hear what I heard from Jim about young women (girls) taking drugs in the 60's while pregnant, I wonder if we are not seeing the results of that today. Maybe it skipped a generation but we have diagnosis of autism and Aspergers syndrome today. When I was growing up these weren't so prevalent. I'd never heard of these syndromes until many, many years later.



I typed this late at night. Sorry for all of the grammatical errors

Edited by Texasky, 09 October 2013 - 02:42 AM.

HE COURTED DEATH LIKE IT WAS A DARK ELUSIVE SWEETHEART

#220 queenhwy

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 01:34 AM

About the name River:

My brother's second son was born in the summer of 1968. One day when Jim was visiting my brother the baby woke up from his nap and started crying. When we all went in to the see the baby and Jim asked if he could pick up him up. My brother who was very happy for a helping hand welcomed Jim's help. So Jim picks up my nephew and the baby immediately stops crying. And this baby and Jim are looking at each other. It was a such a sweet moment and forever seared into my brain. Jim started talking to John (my nephew) and that baby locked eyes on Jim and with a great big smile and he starts cooing. Now we are standing here watching this and my brother is really taken with this moment because John is very hungry and has stopped crying. And my brother is saying that John is usually howling away with hunger and ready for the bottle even when he is being held. So not a sound coming from the baby who is intently staring into Jim's eyes. There is this silent communication between them. It was a magical occurrence to watch this baby stay silent while Jim was holding him. And Jim starts talking to John while he gently rocks him. You could hear a pin drop. So my brother brings in the warmed up bottle and Jim sits down in a chair and gives John his bottle. And they are still locking eyes. John was simply fascinated with this new face. And after those first few ounces, Jim puts John to his shoulder and burps him like a pro. And then gives him the rest of the bottle. When John is finished Jim takes him over to the changing table and changes his diaper like it is second nature. And Jim is softly talking to him. The baby just keeps his eyes locked on Jim. When I asked Jim about this ability to soothe John, he told me he had a nephew and he really felt comfortable with babies. And that is when Jim said he already had a name picked out for a child and it was River.

Jim wanted to have children. He told me so and he would love to have a daughter. And a son would be fine too. Now, something Jim spoke about was that some of the young women he knew in Laurel Canyon were pregnant and taking drugs. He brought up one young woman who purposely took LSD while she was pregnant. Apparently her idea was that the baby's mind/brain would expand more in the uterus. JIm was appalled at such thinking. He went on about how a woman's body needs to be pure and drink only the best water and eat natural foods and best to be living in the country and out of the city. Even coffee and caffinated teas should be eliminated while the fetus is growing. He was really adamant about the fetus getting the best start in life and he believed the mom to be should also take vitamins and have a stress free time while pregnant. She should be happy because the baby would be affected by her moods. Jim was very ahead of his time to be thinking this way. Plenty of women smoked back in the 60's and even drank alcohol and according to Jim took drugs, too.

To hear what I heard from Jim about young women (girls) taking drugs in the 60's while pregnant, I wonder if we are not seeing the results of that today. Maybe it skipped a generation but we have diagnosis of autism and Aspergers syndrome today. When I was growing up these weren't so prevalent. I'd never heard of these syndromes until many, many years later.


What a sweet story! Is your nephew aware of that story? Jim Morrison calmed him down.

I've seen that happen with certain people, the babies instantly calm down and are all relaxed with what seems like no worries.
The future's uncertain
And the end is always near.



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